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Latest revision as of 14:07, 15 July 2008

Name space in is different then in. You can use this program for translation from standard wiki text to wiki text with (temporary) Anarchopedia's name space.

Multilingalism

In this moment we decided that it is better to have one then different projects for each language.

Reasons against separation

(You can add your reason, too.)

1. You need only one username on Anarchopedia.
2. Experience in tells us that different languages are often isolated projects without a lot of contact with the rest of the community - see [1]

Reasons for separation

(You can add your reason, too.)

1. A number of databases make administration easier.
   • This is really an instance of a major problem with free software and open source development models: because you are not a great programmer/administrator, you propose making a that makes implementation rather than user experience easier. This is just another example of overtrust in one's own judgement, and leading to bad decisions. Perhaps it is time to consider some other than?
2. Separate name-spaces are needed in order to support a serious interwiki link standard. The whole and all translation and other capabilities depend on a organizing scheme where language comes before service.
3. Makes for an easy transfer of material from other Media-wiki's to here and vice versa.
4. Making wiki links is less arduous - just two brackets one each side. No complex links, no xx: preface to various pages.

Current rules according to name space

As we don't have different sites for different languages (i.e.: en.anarchopedia.org, fr.anarchopedia.org, es.anarchopedia.org etc.), we need to make our articles in different languages. So, if you want to make a contribution to, please write according to these suggestions:

• All articles have to have a language code before their names. If you want to write something about Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in English, you need to make a link like [[en:Pierre-Joseph Proudhon]] (). Of course, in the most of situation, you want to write something like [[en:Pierre-Joseph Proudhon|]] ().
• But, if you want to write something about internals, you need to put the language code after "Anarchopedia": [[Anarchopedia:en:Policy]].
• An article which doesn't have a language code (such as [[English]]) can be called "root article"; an article which doesn't have language code but has "meta" name (such as [[Anarchopedia:English]]) can be called "meta root article"; an article with language code (such as [[en:English]]) ann be called "defined article"; and an article with both (such as [[Anarchopedia:en:English]]) -- language code and "meta" name -- can be called meta defined article.
• However, it is possible to write articles like [[Español]] or something like that. It is very rare situation to find that Spanish language or attribute "Spanish" in Spanish is written the same in some other language then Spanish. But, you have to keep in mind that someone might like to describe the language "Español" in German. So, even if it would not be very common, it is a much better idea to write [[es:Español]] for a language name or attribute in Spanish.
• When you make one page in some language (i.e. [[es:Español]]), you should make a multilingual page [[Español]] with a link to the page in your language, so someone can make the same page in another language. It is good to have in all languages (which we are using) with the same content and links to the same (or similar) root articles in other languages. So, we would have root articles [[Español]], [[Spanish]] etc. with the same content (of course, articles would not be self-linked):

  Approximate and rudimentary content of root article [[Español]]:

=='''Español''' in different languages==
*English: [[en:Spanish]]
*Español: [[es:Español]]
==Same root pages==
*[[Spanish]]

• Approximate and rudimentary content of root article [[Spanish]]:

=='''Spanish''' in different languages==
*English: [[en:Spanish]]
*Español: [[es:Español]]
==Same root pages==
*[[Español]]

• The Main Page in one languages is meta root article based on the meta word "Anarchopedia" with the name of the language as it is written in that language (such as [[Anarchopedia:English]] or [[Anarchopedia:Español]]).

Decision about name space

One week should be enough for decision. (from 2004/10/30 to 2004/11/07).

• We have decision.

Vote to divide different languages into separate projects

1. I've listed my reasons in various places. The synopsis of it all is all of the weight of this change is pushed onto the front-end, onto the user. If some smart programmer could add things to make this more automagic on the back end it wouldn't be as bad. I don't oppose the sentiment behind it, just the way it is implemented. Lance Murdoch 23:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
2. We should work closely together of course, but Anarchism is about decentralization, not amalgamation. Each locale builds its own articles, and we do translations back and forth to support each other. Just because we seperate to make things easier, doesn't mean we won't be working together!--Che y Marijuana 23:28, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
   • Perhaps true. Going multilingual early was about the only strength of, and that tends also to fix many of its problems, as people who find the culture that develops in one language to be vile, retreat to another. So far most of these who have been "banned" at Wikipedia for instance have managed to contribute in at least one language, without even using proxies. In time the conspiracies created in other languages will achieve "" there, putting off the "" decision for a while. Ideally their next GodKing would not even understand English.  ;-)
3. In general, I am for separation. As I see, the only reason against separation is that we need a lot of user names in a lot of Anarchopedias. All other reasons are for separation. --Millosh 08:49, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
4. Live and let Troll 18:07, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC) agree with Lance Murdoch.
5. Guanaco 02:17, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC) As above.

Another decision about name space

*It seems that problem was in MediaWiki configuration. It is solved now and we have both: nice names and fast Anarchopedias. --Milos Rancic 15:23, 6 Dec 2004 (CST)

• Apache is much faster if Rewrite Engine is not on. If we don't use Rewrite Engine, we can't have pages like eng.anarhcopedia.org/anarchism (we can have eng.anarchopedia.org/index.php/anarchism). I (User:Millosh) don't have idea what to do about that: to turn of Rewrite Engine or to leave language Anarchopedias very slow? So, please, let's make some decision about that:
• I think next Sunday (until 2004-12-13 00:00:00 UTC) should be OK for deadline.
• I would like to see deu much faster because atm there are some peaople working there and its a bit annoying... --henning
  • So, you vote for "ungly names and fast Anarchopedias"? --Milos Rancic 10:41, 6 Dec 2004 (CST)

Vote for ugly names and fast Anarchopedias

1. Guanaco 18:50, 5 Dec 2004 (CST) But keep redirects from http://lang.anarchopedia.org/whatever.
2. Milos Rancic 10:41, 6 Dec 2004 (CST) I think that we can move to nice names when we would have faster server and/or better compiled Apache.
3. --blackredisbeautiful 12:07, 6 Dec 2004 (CST) I think its more important to have a fast system than nice urls, btw. could you please turn the RewriteMod on the german anarchopedia away? that would be nice.
   • As you are the only German user in this moment, I turned off Rewrite Engine to German Anarchopedia. --Milos Rancic 12:22, 6 Dec 2004 (CST)
   • Please, note that names are different now (deu.anarchopedia.org/Hauptseite -> deu.anarchopedia.org/index.php/Hauptseite). --Milos Rancic 12:24, 6 Dec 2004 (CST)

could you please turn the Rewrite stuff on again because now its abit confusin everthing links to index.php/ but it works without too so ;-) --82.83.48.145 15:14, 7 Dec 2004 (CST)

I turned it on. I see what you are talking... If you type ".../index.php/something" in your browser, you will get page "something". As well as you are typing ".../wiki/something" or ".../index.php?...something" or ".../wiki.phtml?...something" or ".../something". And this is for all Anarchopedias. The problem is that this is the only way to turn on Rewrite Engine and to have fast Anarchopedia. The problem is in configuration. If I change configuration so links are just ".../something" Anarchopedia would be much slower (as you saw). If I turn off RE, we would have ugly links in browsers. I think this is the best what we can get... If it is not good idea, let's talk about some other solution. --Milos Rancic 02:16, 8 Dec 2004 (CST)

Notes

• Add your thoughts about this queston at the talk page. After we make decision about some question, it should be rewritten here. Also, correct my English :) (Millosh)

• I don't think trying to link the various languages together is a bad idea. There isn't much point of course in linking except to people who know more than one language, but some people are fluent in two three or more languages. I do think it should be done the backend though. Right now it is all xx: prepended on article names, and weird wiki links within articles. I think changes should be done on the backend so they are invisible to the user. The underlying system is still the same, the user just has to do more work currently. The system was not designed to do what you want. You can redesign it, but the current method is not good. I know some programming myself, I would be happy to contribute to any backend changes. Lance Murdoch 23:32, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)